[Music and background sounds. A child, Meklit, can be heard in the background]

G: Hi Meklit! Yeah, no she’s fine. What is this?

B: Water.

G: [Laughs]

[Music volume fades down]

B: My name is Betelhem, I’m from Ethiopia. I came to Australia in 2013 on November. I arrived to Darwin. After, when I arrived to Darwin, after five days, I was transferred to Nauru offshore detention on 16 of November 2013. I have been in this country 12 years. I don't have a proper visa, like a permanent.

G: My name is Grace, and I’m a disabled writer and broadcaster living in Naarm. And also a friend of Bete’s. 

[More music & background sounds]

G: Yeah let’s sit down here. Let’s sit down. I will sit down. 

[Music fades out, interview formally begins]

G: Okay. So, tell me about – where did we meet? 

B: When we're going to Canberra to have a rally for refugees, especially if you came by boat from Nauru. 

Yeah. Both of us, we were trying to help other refugees, for the freedom, for the future. So we had a common theme, me and you. So that's nice. 

It was quick to know you and it was quick to know me too. Because especially, because we had a common theme. It was nice! When I met you, I feel like I know you more than ten years, [like] I knew you from Ethiopia somewhere. It was easy for me to adapt to your culture or your behaviour, and it was easy for you to adapt and to know me.

And then you took me to your friend's house, that I remember. 

G: Did we go to Ahmed's house? 

B: Yeah. 

G: Yeah. No, we did. We did, like, click straight away. We just had, like, a similar energy or something. I remember you because you gave a speech at that rally. I think it was about, you know, that Medevac Bill, how they were trying to make it legal for people to be able to leave offshore detention to get medical treatment. 

B: Yeah. Finally, we brought all the refugees after that, so it was successful. And I’m happy we did that. And then after that, we catch up. We had a lunch in Footscray, remember? 

G: Yeah we did.
‍
B: I don’t know if you forgot, but I remember everything.

G:  Yeah, I remember.

B: It was good.

G: It was really good. It was really good.

I remember this conversation we had at the rally because you'd just given a speech and we were chatting for, like, the first time, and I think I was saying, like, that you spoke really well, and you were just being yourself.

You were being fierce and smart and … Hi Meklit!

And you were like – I don't really have anything to lose. Like. And like, of course I'm just going to speak about this publicly. And even though, like, I guess there are consequences for people protesting and, like, getting visas, right? Do you think it just came, like completely naturally to just talk about what was going on?

B: The experience I had coming by boat … I never thought I'm going to survive from the boat. And then I have been in detention and I saw a lot of things. So there's no more fear that bad things are going to happen after that.

So yeah, it’s from my experience I have been [through], especially in my journey and the system – the system that they put me in detention. So after that I don't think [that] the worst thing is going to happen because I had experienced the worst thing in my life. So that's why I said I don't have any fears of what’s going to happen because my situation was bad too. There’s no worse than this kind of visa. So what are they going to do to me?

B: The good thing [about] you and me friendship is because English is my second language. Before five years, I was not well like today. And sometimes I used to ask you to fix, when I write something, to check my English, grammars and what I have to say. I always ask you, this is right or not, because…

G: Yes, I like grammar.

B: Yeah, you like grammar. And you did ... I usually ask you, Grace, can you write for me? 

G: I don’t remember that. Did I? 

B: Yeah. I used to send you. I say, I'm going to send this. Can you check my grammar? Or can you add? And then you used to fix for me. Whether you forget because you have short memory, maybe, I don't know.

G: [Laughs] I do have a bad memory.

M: [Laughs]

B: I don’t know, but I used to ask you to help me. Yeah.

M: [Happy baby sounds]

G: She's happy. 

B: Yeah, my daughter is happy always, yeah. And then when I have my daughter, you came to see her? Yeah. To play with her. You guys have a good bond. And you brought her today [a] Christmas gift. That's good. Thank you very much. She's happy. She loved her toy. That's the good connection since … 2020?

G: Yeah, I think it was, maybe it was like 2018. 

B: Yeah, so nearly eight years now. 

I had a question for you, Grace. So what did you learn from me? Or what do you benefit or how you feel that you’ve met me? And, how do you adapt the culture or what do you learn from my culture or refugees? Or how do you feel meeting me?

G: I think when I first met you, I was just kind of … I just saw, like, your strength, pretty immediately, especially because of what you were doing. And yeah, I can't imagine the strength that it takes to kind of like, go through what you have … to go through what you've been through and to build a life despite a system that is trying to break you. Basically. 

Are you laughing at me, Meklit? Are you laughing at me? Why are you laughing at me? She was trying to eat spider webs? [Laughs]

Yeah. It is the most, like, oppressive system that a lot of people don't even know about. And I mean, you carry yourself with such a warmth and such an openness and that's what, like, I really love about you. And I come here and you're always like, you're trying to feed me and make sure that, like, I’m going good. 

B: So what do you like from my culture?

 G: Food. [Laugh]

B: [Laugh] That's nice. That's good. What about the coffee? 

G: The coffee is phenomenal. The herb that you put in the coffee. What is that? 

B: Tenadam, is that one.

G: And it tastes like it's kind of … it's like peppery. It's a bit sweet. 

But also, I think that some Anglo cultures are just … they're really, really different. And, there's less, I guess, like community in a sense. I feel like when I visit or when people visit, you host differently and you want to, like, take care of people and have them sit down and, like, feel comfortable in your home and cared for.

I think there's less … Yeah, there can be less of that in Anglo families, I think people can think a little bit more individually instead of like a collective. Do you agree? What do you think? 

B: Yes, yes, I agree. That's Ethiopian culture. We respect the guests, anyone. So, as I grew up Orthodox Christian religion. So we believe, like, everyone have to be treated the way they are as a human being. It doesn't matter where they come from or who they are. We feel like we are same families. Everyone's like your sister and brother. So I like, happiness of people always. Yeah, because when the people are happy, I'll always satisfy. Yeah. That's me. 

And I’d love to take you one day to Ethiopia when I'm free. 

G: Yeah, it would be amazing. It would be amazing.

B: To see the country ...

G: It would be amazing.

B: ... and to see the culture too. I know you learned a little bit our culture and then you learn more in the future. But I'm just waiting for my freedom! And then you’ll go with me. 

G: And it would be amazing to take Meklit.

G: I remember you saying the waiting is the hardest part. 

B: It’s killing you. Like slowly, it's killing you like slowly, like you're making a barbecue to burn the meat.

Oh, my body's burned. I think only my bone is left now, I think the system burning my bone. They burn all my body, all the meat’s burned. But like, it's like that kind of situation [will] kill you. Like, slowly, slowly. 

But the problem is I have been in this country 12 years. I don't have a proper visa, like a permanent. I cannot see my family, I cannot study, I just – I can't work. If I cannot work, I cannot survive. That's the biggest problem I have here and then missing my family is agony. I have a lot of pain because I'm homesick. I haven't seen them for 12 years.

So again, I'm in a big jail. I can say. I'm in a limbo. I'm still in a big jail. So 12 years, it's hard. A woman that's not free. I'm not a free woman. Even in my country, I was not a free woman. And here in Australia, I'm not free. So all my life I never be free or independent.

So I cannot move or I cannot go wherever I want. All since I born, since and now.

‍G: It's like the most oppressive system. 

B: Those who are forgotten. We are forgotten.

B: I have the last question for you, Grace. I know you used to work or volunteer for refugees to help them for, I think, more than one year. So that time you had a good experience with the other refugees. Are you going to do more in the future? I know, volunteer is the best thing to do. And the kindness. Are you going to do more again?

G: I think, since then I've had like, I mean, in terms of protesting, it's a little bit hard for me now just being chronically ill and in spaces where you kind of have to stand for long periods of time.

And I think protesting is super, super important. And, I think that's also not always an accessible, I guess, mode of activism for people. And I think that's okay. But I mean, as like a white settler, like I do need to be involved in these struggles. It's an incredibly racist country. And there is so much going on all the time.

I guess I keep up with more sort of mutual aid things these days. Like, if people need a little bit of money to do a certain thing, I focus my energy on what I can kind of do online. Which, yeah.

B: Yes, that's good. I really like … you did the best thing as much as you can. I know your situation, but still you had the energy to support us. You give us ideas. That's good. I really appreciate you. You are welcome to my house any time. I'm happy to meet you.

G: [Laughs softly]

B: I'm happy that you volunteered to take care of my daughter. You always say to me, I'll look after for you. That's good. I'm really appreciate that. And I always thank you very much for your support.

G: You too. You too.

Do you still … have you had to kind of step away from that activism or, to have a break or … has it ever felt really kind of like tiring sharing your story?

B: Well, sometimes. I'm a human being. When things do not change, when you don't see any hope or any light, sometimes you say, oh my God, what am I doing? Nothing's going to change. Sometimes you give up again. You stand up. It’s up and down. The reason, sometimes, I give up is when you don't see any little bit light.

So it's hard. It affects you mentally and physical. Yeah. So I give up sometimes because my situation – still nothing’s changed. And when I hear my friend is, their pain or they're struggling, I say we, I went like more than five, six times in Canberra to change the system. But I still didn't change. And sometimes I give up too.

And then I stand up again. Yeah. Because, it's a choice. I say I choose not to give up. Yeah, I choose not to get down. I choose not to be like always on the wrong system. So I choose the better system. So now I just again come back to the activism. Yeah, this is choice.

But sometimes, the choice makes you weak. Yeah, sometimes I give up.

G: But it can be tiring. I think … when you connect with community and other people, when you do activism, that's like the most rewarding part. And that's kind of the thing that keeps building up your, your energy. It's when you kind of feel alone that things get really kind of overwhelming, I think.

B: Yeah. So yeah, that's the reason sometimes I give up. But, thank God I have the strength to come back for the activism too.

Because I collect all my energies. I try to collect all the pieces that cracked … like a cracked mirror. But I try to collect each pieces. I try, I just, I choose to collect them, I choose to come back, I choose to fight, I choose to get a better system not only for me, for others too, because all my friends, I have their pain and the struggling.

That's not fair because they can't study. He can't go anywhere. We just trapped somewhere. So trying to. I don't want to give up because of my family too. Because I want to see them. I want to see them. I want to go to see them. If I give up, I'm not going to see them.

So sometimes I remember my family. I do it for my family too. I will sacrifice. Yeah, that's why I come back.

G: I remember…

M: [Babbling loudly]

G: What’d you find? Meklit’s in the interview as well.

B: At least I have a family now. It's a good thing. Yeah, she's one year and a half, but I wish my family see them too, her.

G: Of course, you can’t see your mum.

B: We can’t bring them, we can’t go. That's the bad thing about [being] disconnected at the moment. Yeah. The reason I'm fighting now is to see my family and my friends. I wish they can study and to sleep peacefully.

G: I think there's so many … thank you, Meklit. I think there's so many things that make up a life. You know, like working, studying, having, you know, connecting with community and being able to see the people that you love and if you can't do those things, it … Yeah I can't, I can't imagine like the … I don't know.

B: I have to work. If I can't work, I don't have any income from the system or Centrelink. I'm going to die. So I'm going to get hungry, although I'm going to be homeless, so I have to work. Yeah. If I'm sick or not, I have to work.

To survive. The system, my visa … you don't have any support from government or Centrelink. So everyone on, like, my situation, sometimes I feel sick not to go work, but I stand up, I say I have to do it, I have to go. I push myself, I push my body even if it’s sick.

Yes, a lot of sacrifice. Hard. Otherwise it's hard to survive.

G: Would you say that again? That was really good and I didn't record it.

B: Just enjoy. What are you going to do? Like, I know my situation, but today I'm going to make barbecue, coffee. Enjoy. Relax. I just choose to enjoy and forget things. But tomorrow I'll give back to my system. Oh, my visa. And then I'll get sad. After tomorrow I'll get happy. I just choose to get happy by force.

G: You’re the best.

[Talking and fades out]